diff --git a/src/betterproto/__init__.py b/src/betterproto/__init__.py
index b26ec4bca..8bd32b53b 100644
--- a/src/betterproto/__init__.py
+++ b/src/betterproto/__init__.py
@@ -591,7 +591,6 @@ def __getattribute__(self, name: str) -> Any:
             return value
 
         value = self._get_field_default(name)
-        super().__setattr__(name, value)
         return value
 
     def __setattr__(self, attr: str, value: Any) -> None:
@@ -875,6 +874,10 @@ def parse(self: T, data: bytes) -> T:
                 )
 
             current = getattr(self, field_name)
+
+            if self.__raw_get(field_name) == PLACEHOLDER:
+                setattr(self, field_name, current)
+
             if meta.proto_type == TYPE_MAP:
                 # Value represents a single key/value pair entry in the map.
                 current[value.key] = value.value
@@ -972,6 +975,8 @@ def to_dict(
                     )
                 ):
                     output[cased_name] = value.to_dict(casing, include_default_values)
+                elif self.__raw_get(field_name) != PLACEHOLDER:
+                    output[cased_name] = {}
             elif meta.proto_type == TYPE_MAP:
                 for k in value:
                     if hasattr(value[k], "to_dict"):
diff --git a/tests/test_features.py b/tests/test_features.py
index ef33d8730..1f0025e31 100644
--- a/tests/test_features.py
+++ b/tests/test_features.py
@@ -17,7 +17,7 @@ class Foo(betterproto.Message):
     assert betterproto.serialized_on_wire(foo.bar) is False
 
     # Serialized after setting something
-    foo.bar.baz = 1
+    foo.bar = Bar(baz=1)
     assert betterproto.serialized_on_wire(foo.bar) is True
 
     # Still has it after setting the default value
@@ -130,7 +130,7 @@ class Foo(betterproto.Message):
     assert foo.bar == 0
     assert betterproto.which_one_of(foo, "group1")[0] == "baz"
 
-    foo.sub.val = 1
+    foo.sub = Sub(val=1)
     assert betterproto.serialized_on_wire(foo.sub)
 
     foo.abc = "test"
@@ -348,7 +348,7 @@ def test_recursive_message_defaults():
     assert msg != RecursiveMessage(
         name="bob", intermediate=Intermediate(42), child=RecursiveMessage(name="jude")
     )
-    msg.child.child.name = "jude"
+    msg.child = RecursiveMessage(child=RecursiveMessage(name="jude"))
     assert msg == RecursiveMessage(
         name="bob",
         intermediate=Intermediate(42),